Recommendation for Mini Pc Replacement for My 5+ Year Old Desktop i3 8100

Hello peeps,

I have a headless desktop I build few years back and has been running 24/7 as a server without any issues. Maybe they might not be the best parts as per few, but it has served me well. I have plex server, Home assistant VM, Linux VM(Sonarr, radarr, qbittorrent, vpn etc), backups(google, phones etc) running on it. Below are the specs.

Desktop Config : PcPartPicker

  • CPU: Intel Core i3-8100 3.6 GHz Quad-Core Processor
  • CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212X 82.9 CFM CPU Cooler
  • Motherboard: ASRock Z370 Extreme4 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard
  • Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport LT 8 GB (2 x 4 GB) DDR4-2400 CL16 Memory
  • Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport LT 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-2400 CL16 Memory
  • Storage: Intel 600p 256 GB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive
  • Storage: Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500 GB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive
  • Storage: Seagate BarraCuda 2 TB 3.5" 7200 RPM Internal Hard Drive
  • Storage: Seagate IronWolf NAS 12 TB 3.5" 7200 RPM Internal Hard Drive
  • Case: Cooler Master MasterBox 5 ATX Mid Tower Case
  • Operating System: Microsoft Windows 11 Pro 64-bit
  • Segotep Segotep GP-600G

Now I am thinking of moving to a mini-pc and some kind of DAS or NAS storage to reduce power usage, better oomph and probably have smaller footprint. I work in IT, so can do things just not that great with linux other than following guides.

Mini PC - Beelink Dual 2.5GbE Network, 16GB DDR5 Mini PC, Intel 12th Core i3 N305 EQ12 Pro

DAS

NAS

Now my questions
* Should I go down the path of mini-pc & storage and replace my desktop?
* I need home assistant & plex server to be ON 24/7, so need the reliability.
* Any recommendations on mini pc's? Above i3 seems to be better in performance than the i3 8100 I have. Is that correct?
* Any downsides of DAS? compared to NAS? I understand I can't access DAS other then from what it's connected. That's fine. I am eager for NAS, but cost is the limiting factor. Any good 4bay nas with support for couple of m2 is around $1k. Open for recommendations on either DAS or NAS.

Thanks a lot.

Posted on Geekzone as well, just posting it here for more info.

Edit: Budget around $300-$400 for mini-pc and maybe $500-$1k for storage. I can reuse all my storage drives. so having couple of m2 slots will help.

Edit 2: Installed Unraid 6.12.3 on my existing pc and moved all services on it. Very happy with the move. Thanks guys for all the help. Still learning and making it right, but I have got more things done then I would have imagined. Never thought I will get the domain and get it working locally to host my own cloud storage, but here we are it's working great.
Unraid setup 1
Unraid docker

Comments

  • Hi Ace,

    You mention one reason to change as 'reduce power usage'. How much power (kWh per day / month / year) is it consuming? How do you know?

    How much power would you anticipate / hope a new machine would use?

    I am thinking about something similar (replace an old PC that is running as a server at home), but an electrician friend (not an IT guy at all) said they thought power savings would be 'next to nothing' and a newer machine might even consume more power.

    Thanks,

    Alan.

    • Well it's just one reason which is not major. Actually getting new hardware will be expensive as well. It is more to do with it being tidy, better performance and maybe I will enjoy building something new haha.

      My intention was to get it tidy, put it next my router. I still haven't really decided if I really want it now. Maybe I keep looking for good deals and jump on it when it comes. So doing my research if the path I am going is good or not.

      Currently, desktop is under a bed in guest room as that's the only place i could get ethernet and hide it. Going mini pc, I can put it next to router which sits on a shelf in lobby.

      • Fair enough - I saw those three words and read too much into them (due to my own thinking on the same subject).

        Being able to move it from under a bed to beside the router would seem like a big win :-)

        I have had some experience with Intel NUCs with clients - I haven't been overly impressed myself, but the sample size is small so beware my biases!

        I have seen two fail within about eighteen months of being installed - both being used as low end servers, so running 24 x 7 albeit in a server room (so not getting touched, cool ambient etc). I replaced both with old Dell PCs (cheap to no cost as they were already available), both setup with two identical old PCs so the second PC is there as a very quick (not really 'hot') swap, as all I have to do is turn off the one that has failed, fire up the new one (already setup with the same IP etc), copy over the data backup, and it will be up and running, so should be up within about 30 mins of me getting there.

        I have another client running a Dell PC as a server, and it has been going fine for at least seven years - might be closer to ten years.

        However, the form factor is a classic PC (something like 300 mm x 300 mm x 100 mm) which I am guessing is what you want to get away from.

        Maybe I (or my clients) have just been unlucky with the NUCs, but I won't be using them by choice again (think they are discontinued anyway).

        • Yes, that 's my major concern about reliability. Wanted to check if I am going down correct path or I am barking the wrong tree.

  • If you've got the budget, there are always the easy to use options such as a 4-bay QNAP NAS. They are pretty simple to use, generally have good reliability, and have their own OS and 'app store' concept meaning many apps such as Plex can simply be installed quickly and easily. Obviously being a premium NAS solution, accessing files remote etc is native and easy. For any of the apps that you will not find on the app store, you can use the QNAP "container station" to install docker containers (sonarr radarr etc)
    They tend to run low class CPU like atom and i3 and so are very power efficent, and have a very tiny footprint - just don't expect to be able to do any transcoding.

    Alternatively you can look at building an M-ATX PC again, something like intel 12100 based, reuse some of your SSD and parts like CPU cooler and case (or just pick them up used to save money)

    I have a similar setup to you, (i5-6700k, and an Nvidia 1660Ti) but I run Ubuntu Server, and use docker-compose to run all that type of software. DM me if you wanted a quick guide on how to get it all setup on a linux based instead (as you will probably find it more straight forward that you expect)

    • Budget around $1k-$1.5k, but again i want save as much as possible.
      Thanks. Yes I am aware of Plex on NAS. Just don't want to do that as low budget ones are terrible or not possible to do transcoding. Good ones are pretty expensive.

      I had thought about upgrading to intel 12100 when recently the deal got posted from mighty ape for $99 CPU. But want to go down the path of external storage. Also tidy up a bit and want to put it in good place rather then under the bed.

      I will be in touch, I more of a windows guy so kind of stick to it for now, but let's see. Nothing wrong in getting my hands dirty if that helps.

      • FWIW: I've been Windows since day dot but recently bit the bullet on a purpose built unRAID home server. Has been pretty straightforward to get everything (the *arrs, Plex, WireGuard etc.) set up, not to mention fun to play around with something new.

        • Been thinking about it for a while, but just very busy to get everything moved as it's a learning curve which will take sometime. Especially I need Home assistant 24/7 so kind of a bottleneck for me. Secondly, I have lots of apple device backups including few from my parents so I don't really know if it will be easy to move those around.

          And running everything in VM feels much easier to deal with as I take regular backups and if something goes bad, just reload from backup and good to go. My windows is almost as plain as it gets except plex server.

          In case I get another system, I will have room to play around until then Windows stays as it is.

          • @ace310: Fair enough. It's really easy to forget that first and foremost this stuff is meant to do a job, and that keeping them working can only stay fun for so long 😅

          • +1

            @ace310: unraid has docker and vm built in.

    • Dumb question here - does the NAS connect to the Nvidia Shield that runs Plex and does the transcoding? Or does the NAS connect to the router and then run the Plex app itself and transcode (so no need for Nvidia Shield)?

      My current set up is external storage drives connected directly to the Nvidia shield who his connected to the router, so just wondering whether I could integrate/connect the NAS storage bay into the Nvidia Shield set up so that it is tidier…

      • All depends on where the plex server is running. Assuming you will have plex server on NAS, it will do the transcoding.

        There is plex server and plex app which connects to the server. Remember cheap NAS will struggle with good 4k (if you are doing it) transcoding if you really need that. If it is local, doesn't direct stream work for you?

        • Yeah current set up works fine as is (being external hard drives connected to the Nvidia Shield which runs Plex and transcodes). This is a DAS set up right?

          But it's untidy/messy so looking into whether NAS for storage connected to the Nvidia Shield could achieve same tidier outcome with backup as well.

          • @L3tstaxth1s: Can you connect external hdds to your router as network storage? Like Asus has that feature, mostly other will do as well.

            More options:

            1. Best would be like what I did, use a computer with all storage inside and run some kind of NAS OS like Unraid or Truenas. Assuming you are bit technically sound to do it.

            2. Might look into something like Beelink mini pcs and connect your DAS to it. You can offload everything from shield to that box and have centralized system. You can check automation video guides

  • I built a new home server recently. Switched over from Ubuntu to unraid. Happy with the change. Uses way less power.

    Went from i7-3700 to i5-13500.

    • How do you know it is using less power - how are you measuring the old system, and the new one (and what were the figures out of interest)?

      • Easiest way would be to get smart plug with power monitoring like tapo p110. I have one, will put it on the server in few days when I get time and measure it.

      • My computer and unifi gear are plugged into a UPS. The UPS power usage went from 90-100W total to about 30-35W total. The UPS also talks to the computer.

        I also have smart plugs, but I don't really use them currently for anything.

        • Cool - thanks.

      • Around 43w usage

    • Nice. can you give the specs and price of the build if you don't mind?

      Unraid is totally a new beast for me. Considering I will only have one server running, might not be an ideal choice for me as will need plex, *arrs, itunes backup, google backup, home assistant running on it for now. Maybe a surveillance system in future. Not sure how much unraid can handle or have support for all this.

      • +1

        unraid sounds perfect for your usage.

        CASE: Fractal Define R5
        MOBO: ASRock Z790 PRO RS WIFI ATX (Has 8xSATA 4xNVME)
        CPU: i5-13500 (chosen bc it has the best iGPU)
        RAM: DDR5-5600 2x16GB
        SSD: Intel 760P 1TB NVME & Samsung 980 Pro 1TB NVME
        PSU: Silverstone 400W something something
        HDD: 20,20,20,20,14,10,10,8 TB

        .

        Very happy with the fractal define r5.

        .

  • Another unraid user here, highly recommend the switch..

    My server is only an older i5-7400, 32gb ram,
    Drives are 3x 12TB, 1x 6Tb, 2x 5Tb and 2x nvme
    It runs a HA VM, Plex (shared with a few people) , frigate, all the ‘arrs, pc backups with veeam

    Power usage is low, lower than you would expect. I haven’t monitored it directly yet as haven’t powered off to install the Shelly but when I’m not here my total house power usage is only 100-200w idle

    Not sure if you can do direct iTunes backups but I just have my laptop running iMazing to auto backup then that gets cloned to the server but could probably do it in a VM on unsaid

    • Excellent. That puts me in better position except for Itunes.

      I just measured my windows server usage at around 43w when using 1 plex stream.

      Should I consider 13th gen i3 or i5?

      • If you plan to add a VM to deal with the iTunes issue I’d go with i5, gives you some room for future growth in case you find other recommended containers

        One thing with unraid is you need to setup a parity drive, it needs to be the biggest drive so go as big as you can to help with any other future drive upgrades

        • Boot drive has to be a usb drive? Are there any recommendations for that?

          Thanks. Just figured i5 has 770 igpu vs 730 on i3. So yes it will be i5 if I decide to replace my server.

          • @ace310: There are posts for days about different USB drives. I would say just use a crappy tiny old one.

            The reason is that you once you are booted up you no longer use the USB for anything while the server is running (unless you change the server settings then it saves the changes to the boot drive). This frees up all the sata ports for storage drivers.

            • @kiwijunglist: Whilst I don't use UnRAID myself, I concur about the USB Boot Drive.

              In similar situations, I always be sure to have two (essentially) identical USB drives, both of which boot to the same configuration, so that if one fails, I have a quick and easy swap to get going again, hence I am happy to use using cheapo ones (could even have three I guess!)

              Do be sure to test that both (or all seventeen) work by actually booting them.

              The only other issue then is to make sure that the backup stick is in line with the primary if you make any changes. Some situations, you can literally just copy one to the other offline, but occasionally I have had to image one to the other (I generally use dd for that, but there are plenty of Windows options too).

              Do post back once you have decided and let us know what you did. This thread has got me considering playing with UnRAID myself again:-)

              • @Alan6984: Unraid license is linked to USB drive, so it's not that simple to swap usb boot drive I believe. That's what I have learned, could be wrong.

                • @ace310: Fair enough - I haven't actually tried UnRAID yet.

                  I would be surprised if it checked a hardware ID / GUID etc, but it could do.

                  Would also be a big downside to UnRAID if they stopped you backing up your config that way, but perhaps it allows a backup in some other way.

                  • @Alan6984: License is linked to USB UUID. There is a process to transfer license from one usb to other. It can only be done once a year yourself.

                    • @ace310: Darn :-)

                      • +1

                        @Alan6984: Correct.

                        You can backup USB not drive online with one click or locally.

                        Can restore online backup to new stick with click of button.

                        If you had multiple USB drives die then you just ask the company to push your licence over to the new key, I don't think it's a big deal.

      • In unraid, you can not share a newer generation intel iGPU with VM and something else. If the iGPU is used by the VM, then nothing else can use the iGPU. It applies to 12th + 13th gen iGPU, I can't remember which older gen iGPU you can share. It might be around 10th gen.

        So ; If you want to use iGPU for plex in docker then you can't use the iGPU in the VM.

        The i5-13500 has UHD 770 GPU, I thought given how much I was already spending it wasn't much of a difference vs the cheaper i3 which has UHD 730.

        • I read about sharing issue for gpu. Saw a redit post that it has been fixed and you can share a virtual gpu or something so it can work in vm. Not really sure about it.

          • @ace310: I don't use VM currently.

            I don't know what a "virtual GPU for a VM" is …. is it virtual GPU using the actual GPU to do the processing, or does it use CPU, or is it just something so that you can run a VM that expects a GPU. I dunno.

            • @kiwijunglist: Read almost at the bottom of this post. Frankly I have no clue.

              https://www.reddit.com/r/unRAID/comments/zq8kuf/unraidplex_b…

              • @ace310: Looks like nothing changed. Your can't share a igpu between Dockers and VM unless you use a plugin for 5-10th gen igpu.

                They are talking about using the CPU for the VM GPU I think.

                • @kiwijunglist: I hope you don't mind me asking some questions.

                  • When I am building/adding drives to Unraid, do they need to be formatted? Currently all my drives are in NTFS format which has data on it. Can I add them as is or needs to be changed? Currently I have 12tb,4tb and 2tb(spare) drives, 1tb, 500gb,256gb(spare) nvme.
                  • License doesn't lock which drives I use right? Like I can replace drives without worrying about the license as long as number of drives are within the limit?
                  • My plan, put 12tb as parity and 4tb & 2tb storage drives. 1tb nvme as cache & 500gb nvme for VM/docker storage. Only have 2 m2 slots so can't use more. Does this seems good or not. I will definitely need to get atleast 8tb sometime soon as I will lose 12tb as parity drive. I do have some spare ssd's lying around + couple in old laptop not used but will think on those later.
                  • Let me know if you know of a guide to install all *arrs in a docker?
                  • Currenlty, I have a ubuntu VM just for bittorrent so that I can run VPN in it so that host doesn't have to be behind VPN. This was required for plex. Can something be achieved in Unraid? I think I will have to run same VM and not a docker. Sorry don't have much experience in docker.

                  I don't want to purchase any more hardware currently and want to use what I have. Once I have a working build I can add/replace drives to it.

                  Thanks for all the help.

                  • @ace310: Well drive needs to be formatted if I have parity drive, figured that out. So now need to find a way to retain data and build the server. First of I need to find a way to run my homeassistant somewhere before so that I can take server offline.

                    • @ace310: Hi,

                      I'm not an expert in unraid, as only had it for 3-6 months ish.

                      Previously I used ubuntu, and a combination of docker compose or a script called dockstarter.

                      Yes. From memory I had to format my drives to use the drives in the array (main storage area). But I think if you use pools, then you don't need to reformat them.

                      License refers to the number of drives that are present when the OS boots up (NVME and SATA). So you could add drives exceeding the limit (eg. plug in external usb drives) after the OS is booted.

                      Do you really need parity?

                      I suggest either

                      a) 12TB single drive for "array" with no parity. Combine the 2TB+4TB drive as a 2TB total RAID "pool", this 2TB pool has protection for single drive failure.

                      b) 12+4+2 tb drives in array, with no parity.

                      You will need to move the data (i assume movies) off the 12TB onto other drives then format it then move them back. To move them back mount the empty 12TB drive as the array then create shares as per the guide then copy the files to the share.

                      You can get docker for torrenting with built in vpn. I use a docker called transmission_VPN. It's by someone called hauppage or soemthing like that.

                      Think is not an automatic install all the *arrs in docker, but using unraid it's pretty quick to setup.

                      For the guide to setup unraid *arr apps, you should look at TRASH guide (+/- IBRACORP)

                      Docker is easy to use, even easier to use in unraid compared to command line.

                      To get the concepts you should watch videos by "space invader" about docker and unraid etc etc. Probably spend about 1hr watching videos. But for the actual setup use the TRASH guide as some of the spaceinvader videos are a bit old.

                      • @kiwijunglist: Thanks heeps. Time for research for few days. Currently unraid has 15% coupon until end of Aug so will get the basic license. Need to move HA to some laptop temporarily and figure out storage .

                        • @ace310: With HA you need to decide VM vs docker.

                          If you are using the HA add-ons eg mosquito/zigbee2mqtt etc then if you use HA in docker you have to manually create the dockers for the add-ons. If you use VM to run HA then you can let HA setup the dockers for you. A lot of people prefer VM.

                          Im not currently using HA but previously used docker. And setup the add-ons manually as separate dockers

                          • @kiwijunglist: It's going to be VM. I read docker is bit of slow development cycle for matter as well. Plus, vm has got its own HA OS and supervisor which is quite useful. I would recommend VM for HA. I will try my existing vm to run it. If not will do clean install in vm and restore from backup.

                          • @kiwijunglist: Finally setup my unraid. Currently only have 12tb array & 1tb cache installed. Got plex, sonarr, radarr, qbit running fine. Used Trash guides. Trying to move HA vm is a pain. Can't get the backup running on unraid. Found one recommendation on converting vdi image to qcow2 and use qcow2 image on unraid. I will try that soon.

                            One thing I can't get my head around is what is the best file system to use for Array & cache? xfs or btrfs or zfs? Currently I set it to zfs, but I am doubting myself and can't find good explanation yet.

                            Still things to do
                            * Couldn't get vpn working qbit so need to figure that out
                            * Plex streaming issue on mobile. It stops video after 2 mins but sound is on. Tv & laptop works fine. I think it might be an issue with transcoding.
                            * Google backup - maybe using rclone
                            * Install 4tb & 2tb into array
                            * Install another cache m2 (Currently it holds my windows in case I need to run it). Need to take image of that before.
                            * Move all other backup data
                            * Enable remote access from outside - not sure how.
                            * Find a way to have itunes backup.
                            * Maybe more, but till then it will be aligned to my existing system

                            • @ace310: I use RClone with Google Drive - it works really well.

                              I also use qcow2 virtual disks a lot (outside of the pure MS shops), and have never, not once, had one go bad on me - small sample size though, and always with KVM, so not sure whether that is a factor.

                              • @Alan6984: I have a feeling that the HA vm backup has windows related drivers like vbox, sata etc which might be an issue. Size is not an issue for me. I just need that to work.

                                Do you know of a good guide for windows to convert the image to qcow2?

                                Also, does rclone have a gui or is it terminal based?

                                • @ace310: I have never converted from VDI to QCow2 - sorry!

                                  I have only ever used RClone as a command line application - I try very hard to avoid GUI applications wherever possible for the speed / productivity issues, plus easy to log absolutely everything you do (important for when you make a mistake or when you fluke it and need to recall how!), and I am always looking to move things from manual to automated / scheduled which is also, generally, trivial on the command line.

                                  If I am working in MS Land then I often have to use a GUI, but I always feel a little dirty afterwards :-)

                            • @ace310: Cant help with the VM migration but I would of guessed that you would upgrade and then backup home assistant in the old VM. Then create a new VM in unraid along with a fresh new installation of home assistant and then restore the old home assistant backup?

                              • @kiwijunglist: Yes. tried that. It was the first thing I did. New VM and restore from backup. Didn't do anything and the VM died later. Played with it for 3hours later gave up. So I thought maybe I can bring in the VM image and try it as that's also a linux.

                            • +1

                              @ace310: Array file system I think xfs would be best. I think that is the default?

                              Cache file system I think it doesn't really matter much. I think it's best to use default option which i think is zfs.

                              There are some small differences. Some of them you need to run trim manual for an SSD. The zfs has a snapshot backup restore system built in. There is a space invader video about zfs with regards to unraid.

                              I don't know much about this either except that default options should work for most people.

                              • @kiwijunglist: Yes. So I started doubting myself. Now I have both array & cache in zfs, not sure if I can change it to xfs. Don't want to recreate everything if I have to rebuild the array. Might post it on reddit or unraid forums to figure out.

                                • +1

                                  @ace310: Sorry I meant to write for cache default is xfs. Cant edit it now.

                                  To change the file system you need to format the drive which will wipe the data.

                                  You should stick with zfs.

                                  Asking for advice on unraid or Reddit might be worthwhile as I am a novice.

                                  • @kiwijunglist: Ended up redoing my disk, but I feel good now. Maybe zfs would have been fine but happy for now.

                                    Did get lots of things done which I had not thought about. Got my own cloud storage hosted locally with getting my own domain was something I always wished but reverse proxy & certs had always put me off. The guides were so easy to do it, no doubt there were issues but got it there finally. Still work in progress but so far it's good.

                                    Unraid setup 1
                                    Unraid docker

                                • +1

                                  @ace310: level1 tech forums too is a good place considering a lot of thier content is servers/nas etc

  • Even though I have perfect running unraid server on my old system I found this motherboard and config which is awesome and exactly what I was looking for.

    https://youtu.be/vjDoQA4C22c?si=Ni7U2-unHqsRMLTG

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