Retailers Engaging in Deceptive Advertising

• 

  Jay on 10/06/2016 - 18:31

  +2

  Why don't you send these details together with links etc to Commerce Commission?

  We have been dealing with them on another matter this week and so far had found them to be quite responsive and interested. The key seems to be in providing sufficient detail and confirmations.

  There is too much of this High-Low Pricing going on in retail sales. Kathmandu and others are prone to be doing this.

  Since most of us here are informed consumers, we are probably more likely to become aware of these practises than most. So perhaps behoves us to be a little pro-active in reporting such deceptive marketing activities?

  • 

    Kiwi on 10/06/2016 - 18:35

    +3

    Worth making this into a general discussion thread you reckon? Maybe we can take note of occurrences in posts below, just for somewhere to keep track of certain stores, look for patterns, etc. It's pretty obvious who the main culprits are, but actually having sufficient evidence to lodge a complaint is another matter really.

    • 

      Jay on 10/06/2016 - 18:49

      +1

      Impression we've got from talking several times with the Commerce Commission is that though they are the folk responsible for enforcing issues of fair trade etc., they seem to have very few resources (staff levels etc.) to actually investigate complaints, unless they happen to be high profile or some one like Fair Go does most of the leg work for them.

      So the better the documentation of these dodgy trading practices, the more likely they can follow it up with minimal effort.

  • 

    nzmax on 04/07/2016 - 23:49

    Companies that tend to price this way, I believe have it all timed correctly by computer, so the item is at the higher price for longer than it is 'on sale', which is all I believe they are required to do. So legally they are doing nothing wrong. It is a win win for them too, because they do sell some items at the full price, and make a huge margin, and still make a profit when discounting them / doing a price rotation.WHen on sale, they also sell in bulk quantity. The trick is to play them at their own game, and always buy at the lower price.

• 

  techhit on 10/06/2016 - 18:39

  +5

  Yeah, I've made a formal complaint through the commerce commission's site. Will keep you guys informed.

  • 

    Kiwi on 10/06/2016 - 18:42

    +1

    Sweet. Keep us informed, interested to know what the process is like. If the comment from Jay is anything to go by, they must be actively targeting this kind of deceptiveness.

• 

  [Deactivated] on 10/06/2016 - 19:08

  +1

  A bit similar from what PB Tech did a while back. Mighty Ape is not the only that does it, I'm sure plenty of other retailers do it. I've saved that page to the Way Back Machine incase there is any doubt of the price.

• 

  Dunno on 10/06/2016 - 19:38

  +1

  I also think it's misleading they advertise the bit at the bottom of pages where they pair stuff with another item to 'Buy together and save'

  eg

  https://www.mightyape.co.nz/product/Whittakers-Toffee-Milk/1…

  $21.99 right now paired with

  https://www.mightyape.co.nz/product/Milkbottles-1kg-Rainbow-…

  $9.99 right now, $11.99 elsewhere

  MA say: List price: $33.98
  Buy together: $31.73 (save 7%)

  Buying together only saves you 25cents at MightyApe's individual pricing, people see it thinking they are getting 7% off when it's actually less than .8%

  • 

    [Deactivated] on 10/06/2016 - 19:44

    Actually only save ~6.5% I believe. Not 7%.

  • 

    Sam91 on 10/06/2016 - 20:46

    +2

    Been a fan of Mighty Ape for a long time. Totally agree though, the "buy together and save" is really misleading. That should be pulled from their website, or they should show the actual savings by buying together.

  • 

    techhit on 10/06/2016 - 23:45

    You should also file a complaint with the commerce commission about this:
    http://www.comcom.govt.nz/the-commission/making-a-complaint/

    There's a lot more clout to different people making submissions against a retailer for these kind of practices than if I were to do it alone.

  • 

    Sam91 on 15/06/2016 - 13:00

    +1

    This is the response I got:

    "Thanks for getting in touch with us and for your feedback!

    These sales are automatically generated determined by what customers prefer to purchase together, and the prices are determined by whether the items are already on sale, and also basically what the lowest price we can offer on them is.

    As such, often these discounts are not much, but are still something small that we can offer to our customers for items that are commonly purchased together.

    However, I have passed your feedback on for consideration for the future."

    Not sure he really got the point. I wasn't complaining about the size of the discount. I was complaining that customers think they are getting a big discount by buying together, when it's a tiny discount by buying together.

    • 

      techhit on 16/06/2016 - 09:13

      I Am still waiting for a response from the commerce commission

  • 

    Dunno on 29/06/2016 - 17:06

    +2

    I see they have now changed it so it shows more accurate percentages

    • 

      Sam91 on 29/06/2016 - 23:05

      That's an awesome result : )

    • 

      Sam91 on 23/08/2016 - 13:22

      Just stumbled upon this, which is using the old method. They're still using the new method for food etc. from what I can see.

      • 

        Jay on 23/08/2016 - 14:03

        Not quite sure what point you are making here? $69.99 is the listed price elsewhere (publishers etc.) $54.99 is a 21% discount (21.43% to be precise) Is available cheaper on pre-order, which is quite normal in publishing.

        (Grabone listed it recently at $49.99, which says the publishers are not confident about adequate sales. So bound to be even cheaper as Remainder Stock, before too long.)

        Still valid for MA to price it against the publishers listed ('elsewhere') price. Sorry, not understanding…..

      • 

        Kiwi on 23/08/2016 - 14:09

        @Jay:

        I think the point is that it is available cheaper elsewhere, not certain though.

        http://www.notsocks.co.nz/richie-mccaw-148

      • 

        Jay on 23/08/2016 - 14:13

        @Shaw: Perhaps, but to qualify as High-Low marketing scam as Kathmandu regularly offer, the 'normal' price has to be unrealistically elevated to make the discount appear to be more than it really is.

      • 

        Sam91 on 23/08/2016 - 14:13

        +2

        @Shaw: @jay:

        Sorry for not being clearer. It's nothing to do with their price compared to other retailers. My complaint is about the "buy together and save even more" feature. Have a look at the claimed "buy together" savings and then compare it to the separate prices of the two books. Will try explain in more detail in a sec.

      • 

        Kiwi on 23/08/2016 - 14:17

        +1

        @Sam91:

        But… but.. 1% just doesn't read as well as 14%!

      • 

        Sam91 on 23/08/2016 - 14:25

        @Shaw:

        Yep exactly. It really does come down to one's own interpretation. My concern is that many buyers will think they are being rewarded a 14% discount for purchasing the second book. The problem is, the 14% is derived from the supposed saving on one of the books compared to the book's "elsewhere" price. Like you said, the actual saving by "buying together" is minuscule (1%), not the 14% percent the buyer expects.

    • 

      Dunno on 31/01/2017 - 18:49

      and now I see it's back to the old system of potentially misleading discounts(18% vs ~1% actual discount for bundling) in the food category.

  • 

    [Deactivated] on 29/06/2016 - 17:07

    LOL

    Buy Together and Save:
    Whittaker's Toffee Milk
    Whittaker's K Bars
    List price: $41.98
    Buy together: $41.48 (save 1%)

• 

  techhit on 13/06/2016 - 15:48

  +2

  Guys - I submitted a 1 star review on their product page about their deceptive pricing, and as to be expected my review didn't get published. However, they did update their pricing:

  https://www.mightyape.co.nz/product/27-Asus-ROG-Swift-1440p-…

  And they used the most expensive price as per pricespy.

  I doubt the commerce commission will take any action now that they've updated their price, but I did submit a screenshot as evidence.

  • 

    [Deactivated] on 13/06/2016 - 15:51

    +1

    If you are interested it is fully archived here.

• 

  moxpearl on 29/06/2016 - 17:53

  So basically what Briscoes does every single sale ?

  • 

    techhit on 29/06/2016 - 19:07

    +1

    Well, I'm not aware of Briscoes putting up their normal retail prices when they're not on sale.

    PB Tech on the other hand, allegedly put up their normal "RRP" prices and then discount them during a "sale" and claim that you're saving more than you actually would (if at all). As a hypothetical example, they normally sell a 1TB hdd for $100, and then a day before the sale they put the price up to $110 and then on sale day sell it for $100. They claim you save $10, when in actual fact you don't save anything at all.

    p.s. Commerce Commission have ignored my complaint.

    • 

      footy7 on 04/07/2016 - 22:13

      The Commerce Commission should take this seriously if a retailer simply changes the price like that in a day or two, it is clearly misleading consumers. Perhaps if you provide some solid evidence to the Commission, like screenshots, then perhaps they will take more notice.

      In saying that, I have made purchases from PB before, and I know they are quite price competitive, with lower margins than most retailers (plus they are wholesalers as well) so they make big purchases on a regular basis with their overseas suppliers; and due to currency fluctuations and/or demand and supply prices, popular core components like RAM and hard drives are know to fluctuate in prices quite frequently.

      • 

        Nil Einne on 26/08/2016 - 20:01

        One thing not mentioned is whether the price stayed at $110 after the sale or went back down to $100. If it stayed $110 for a few weeks afterwards IMO it'll be more complicated especially since as you mentioned prices can fluctate quite often and with only one or two examples. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some dodgy going on, but it's more difficult to demonstate.

• 

  techhit on 04/07/2016 - 23:17

  +1

  I did provide evidence….
  I saved the email I received, saved the page in MHT format as well as JPG, and submitted them in a zip file. Also had a link to the pricespy history… everything I submitted could not be refuted… The commerce commission are a bunch of lazy idiots.

• 

  Nil Einne on 26/08/2016 - 20:12

  Another thing I've noticed is at the Lincoln Road Pak'n'save, they sometimes seem to have a red "Extra Low" price tag on an item for many months, heck recently I found one nearly a year old (I think it's over a year now). I've never said anything to the ComCom or Pak'n'save about this, mostly because I suspect what it'll mean is they increase the prices more regularly rather than keeping the price but using a regular price tag. Alternatively they may simply argue the "Extra Low" price tag is intended to be compared to other retailers rather an indication of a discount or reduced price.

  One advantage of Countdown is they at least display when the discount is ending. (Although I have come across it once or twice when they had it again the next week.) I think Pak'n'save Henderson also does this. Lincoln Rd just shows when the discount begun (which to be fair, can sometimes be good too like when it has been on several months). I'm not really sure how sophisticated their computer system is anyway. Maybe one reason it arises is because they rely on their staff to take down deals and they forget.

  • 

    Nil Einne on 26/08/2016 - 21:16

    Another thing I've found which I'm sure is a genuine mistake but reveals poor practices is when they either forget to take down a price tag or forget to lower the price. If you complain, after they get their staff to confirm they reduce it for you but they often don't seem to do anything else. So the wrong price is still there. I've even had it when I've purchased the same item for 2 or 3 weeks and had to complain each time! Possibly they've gotten better now, I haven't actually had this for I think over a year so don't really know and I think the 2 or 3 weeks thing was 2-3 years ago.

    • 

      Jay on 27/08/2016 - 14:47

      If the price tag is lower, you can obviously insist on being charged the advertised price. The other trick is that the week after the sale, while the price has gone up, there will still be a coloured (non sale) tag on the item.

      This capitalises on buyers who have seen the specials flyer, but don't realise the cutoff date has come and gone. For the same reason, every now and then, they also change which day of the week, the Specials week starts on. Even seen situations where the product may be temporarily at a higher than normal price, after a sale week. An ever changing game.

      (Another trick is to make the sale price only on one flavour/colour of the said item, even though they are normally the same price anyway.)

  • 

    techhit on 26/08/2016 - 22:05

    I've seen that before. Extra Low means "every day low price". It's not a special or promotional price.

• 

  Mark Wasley on 27/08/2016 - 13:10

  This might be worth watching:

  Is a saving a bargain? - Fair Go (TVNZ)

• 

  Jay on 27/08/2016 - 14:28

  I know ELI5 (Explain Like I'm Five) is a thing on Reddit which can be useful at times. But why do all these 'current affairs' type presenters always have to talk like they are teaching a kindergarten class! Big part of why we don't watch very much commercial TV these days.

  The information presented just confirms that the CC lifestyle (including Frugality etc.) is largely a thinking person's game. You do have to do your homework and be a very aware purchaser. Also need to understand quality vs quantity etc. The lowest price isn't always the better purchase.

  The annoying (and adversarial) nature of large (box) retailers is that they are nearly always trying to put one over the consumer. Once upon a time, people knew bulk was cheaper, until the supermarkets figured out that meme and reversed pricing. So now, often you pay more per kg for the larger quantity.

  People used to compare box/tin size. So the supermarkets/suppliers quietly reduced content without changing packaging so consumers paid more for what seemed the same.

  People would compare volume and price, 2x the 250g tin as compared with the 500g tin. So suppliers made their containers odd sizes which didn't easily multiply through, making the mental arithmetic more difficult. (Tip - never shop without using the calculator on your smart phone!)

  Sometimes the 2 for 1 type offers can be more expensive than individual sizes. So many tricks. It is a constant warfare between supplier and consumer. They come up with all sorts of promotional strategies. Then they get upset when folk like the CC crowd figure out a cunning way of maximising the value, either within the bounds of the offer or because of someone's oversight/poor planning.

  I do believe in maintaining ethical standards around these purchasing activities. However never too bothered by making the best of a deal as we know they'll totally try to con us out of our hard-earned dollars, given a chance.

  (Re One Card offers. Apparently, according to their internal SOPs, they are supposed to put the One Card pricing offers to one side, allowing the full retail price to be clearly seen. Otherwise can be accused of misleading advertising.

  Had stoushes with supermarket managers where this hasn't been done. Shopping in a rush and all you see is this huge banner price covering the normal price tag, with the One Card fine print. Easy to assume that is the price, grab and run. Then find out otherwise at the check-out!)

• 

  Kiwi on 12/09/2016 - 23:06

  +2

  This is more like it..

  http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/84156791/bike-barn-…

• 

  nzmax on 13/09/2016 - 16:11

  I wonder what the remedy is for consumers who have purchased something at full price on the belief that it was discounted, when the comcom gets involved and finds them guilty. Can they return the goods or ask for a further discount to reflect what was offered as a discount?

  • 

    Kiwi on 14/09/2016 - 06:48

    I don't think there really is one. You could walk in and return the product if you wanted to give that a go, especially if they are admitting to acting outside the law, but I don't know how much success you'd have with that.

  • 

    singh on 14/09/2016 - 09:31

    I would have thought its the consumer's fault for not researching the price though surely?

    • 

      nzmax on 15/09/2016 - 17:57

      Yeah right. So you should never trust a retailers pricing and what they are saying is right? That is why we have the FTA to protect consumers.

• 

  [Deactivated] on 10/02/2017 - 18:57

  BikeBarn fined $800k for deceptive advertising