Best Value Smart Phones in The $500 - $700 Range?

tacobaron on 29/01/2024 - 15:41

Last time I bought a phone was years ago from a deal posted on here for a bargain Oppo that has done me well. However it's getting very sluggish and time to put it to rest and get a newer phone.

I can't find any outstanding deals at the moment, there are also so many options I'm pretty much stuck on choosing. I figure someone here is more knowledgeable than I am in this space so I'm looking for recommendations.

Just looking for the best value for money phone in that range at the moment. Tie breaker would be cheaper is better.

Uses are just general social media, a bit of netflix and maybe the odd game but that's not a huge priority. The oppo did me so well I am open to any brands.

General Discussion

Comments

kfr23 on 29/01/2024 - 16:14

+6

The Galaxy A54 is pretty good for something you can buy locally. Otherwise I'd look at the newer Poco phones on AliExpress.
- tacobaron on 29/01/2024 - 17:09
  
  I actually have an A53 as my work phone, which is all good except it struggles to connect to our mesh. I had a google and this seems like a common issue with the phone. Any idea if it's fixed for the A54?
- mdsl32 on 29/01/2024 - 21:37
  
  Quite a popular model for a reason.
  At least Samsung is starting to improve on software updates long term and parts are quite easy to obtain if you break it.
- Smolcheese on 03/02/2024 - 15:00
  
  Poco M6 pro looks like a good deal from the official aliexpress store the 12gb 512gb version is $562 currently. Do you have any thoughts on this phone or suggested better phones?
  - kfr23 on 03/02/2024 - 16:27
    
    It seems fine with a quick look over it, I don't actually know much about Poco phones I've just heard they are quite good value for the price. The Poco F5 Pro also looks good for a similar price. If applicable you could use the codes found here: https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/829025
BDS on 29/01/2024 - 16:36

+1

POCO F5 5G:

https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/781442
- tacobaron on 29/01/2024 - 17:12
  
  Very interesting, kinda scares the crap out of me ordering something for over $500 bucks on aliexpress. Sounds like it's all legit from that thread though.
  - Bobtherobber on 29/01/2024 - 22:31
    
    Make sure you use PayPal if you end up doing it as PayPal have great buyer protection
  - mdsl32 on 31/01/2024 - 09:23
    
    +1
    
    It is all legit but just sorta treat it as no warranty. Some sellers do honour it but you have to send it back to China.
  - NovaAlpha on 01/02/2024 - 12:16
    
    I've bought many phones from Aliexpress before, it's safe as long as you buy from sellers who have a lot of good ratings/reviews.
icecold on 29/01/2024 - 17:15

+3

I just moved to a a54, on special for 550ish.
Needed a dual Sim phone with reasonable specs. Fitted the bill and hasn't let me down yet
ace310 on 29/01/2024 - 17:47

+2

Lots of 2nd options on Fb/trademe out there if you have time to figure out a good genuine deal. And if you don't mind 2nd's.
- Plug on 01/02/2024 - 09:57
  
  Yeah, a 2 year-old Galaxy should outperform a current mid-ranger handily
nzmax on 29/01/2024 - 19:10

+1

An iphone SE3 or 4 if they come out this year, should have a long life, apart from battery life.
- huffboy on 29/01/2024 - 19:25
  
  +1
  
  most likely out of OPs price range.. 500-700.
  - nzmax on 29/01/2024 - 19:27
    
    +1
    
    Should be able to get a good condition second hand SE3 for that.
cheekiecheapo on 30/01/2024 - 11:53

+1

I've been using various Moto G phones for the past few years. They are virtually flagship without the flagship prices. They get regular OS upgrades and are very close to stock Android with a v. low amount of bloat. I'm currently on the Motorola Moto G 5G Plus Dual SIM but I'm there are newer models like this one, moto G+ gen9, now. Basically, they are powerful and I've not had major issues with them.
alice12358 on 30/01/2024 - 15:07

I was thinking of buying a refurbished IPhone SE 2020 (which you can get for around $400-ish). Have always hand android phones up til now. Opinions/advice welcome!
- tacobaron on 30/01/2024 - 16:55
  
  What's the general opinion on refurbished? Certainly more bang for your buck.
- FiveOneFive on 30/01/2024 - 20:54
  
  That is too expensive for a refurbished one.
- kfr23 on 03/02/2024 - 16:25
  
  I wouldn't, awful battery life due to tiny battery.
spren on 30/01/2024 - 20:34

+1

Pixel 6a/7a and it's not even close.
- FiveFeetUnder on 31/01/2024 - 08:18
  
  +1
  
  Do they have VoWIFI and VoLTE with the NZ carriers now?
  - spren on 31/01/2024 - 08:22
    
    Yeah, and eSIM support and everything else too.
  - trev on 31/01/2024 - 09:10
    
    Not Listed as compatible devices for wifi calling on OneNZ or Spark websites
    - spren on 31/01/2024 - 09:48
      
      I literally own both, and both work with WIFI calling on both Spark and One NZ.
      - trev on 31/01/2024 - 10:36
        
        @spren: Thanks, that's good to know, went into OneNZ and asked about a specific phone and they just look it up on the website and say no it doesn't work. Good to get confirmation
    - ace310 on 31/01/2024 - 09:56
      
      Not listed doesn't mean they are not compatible. Also Pixel is not officially available in NZ, that could be the reason not listed. But, yes you need first hand confirmation that it works which is mentioned above. So it should be fine.
- cutcutcut on 31/01/2024 - 08:18
  
  Where did one find those?
  - spren on 31/01/2024 - 08:22
    
    Online retailers, generally.
  - Plug on 01/02/2024 - 23:38
    
    If you don't mind forgoing a warranty, the get some good discounts on Amazon Au from time to time
- tacobaron on 31/01/2024 - 10:23
  
  I found a Pixel 7 on Kogan as a 'direct import' for $739, too good to be true? Where would you recommend?
  - spren on 31/01/2024 - 10:49
    
    It can be difficult to get them into the country reliably and safely - I'd tend to trust Amazon AU, MightyApe or EInfoTech over Kogan (especially since Kogan uses Marketplace sellers), but I did buy my 6a through a Marketplace seller on Kogan so ymmv.
  - Grandma on 01/02/2024 - 12:45
    
    Im using one now and I've been very happy.
    
    Screen has been a bit challenging in the recent sunny days because its not super bright like the older iphone I came from.
    
    Most of my complaints are just google things tbh. Maps always defaulting to walking for example.
- etcode on 31/01/2024 - 11:58
  
  7a for $640 (bought in AU, tax refund at airport) or 7 for $780 shipped from Dicksmith? What would be your pick?
  - spren on 01/02/2024 - 11:34
    
    7a personally, but not at that price - you should be able to get it cheaper. The Pixel 7 price isn't bad.
    - etcode on 01/02/2024 - 11:39
      
      These values are all in NZD. Curiously, where are you seeing a cheaper price for the 7a?
      
      I am wary from ordering from Dick Smith because they've historically stocked the Japanese model, where the camera always makes a shutter sound no matter what and you cannot disable it.
      - spren on 01/02/2024 - 11:42
        
        @etcode: My mistake, actually - I was thinking about Pixel 6a prices. I'd be happy with the Pixel 7a for that price, and I like the form factor over the Pixel 7 - but that's completely personal.
        
        And - you're buying an Android phone. If you're concerned about getting a Japanese model (which I actually think is unlikely in this specific case) just root it, switch regions and then relock the bootloader.
NovaAlpha on 01/02/2024 - 12:23

-1
If you're techy and if your phone has custom ROM support, why not flash it and try it out? Most of the time, custom ROMs breathe new life into your phone and make them faster and also keep up with the latest security updates as well. Saves you from having to buy another phone for the sake of having a faster phone.

Otherwise, buy directly from China. There are websites out there like JD.com or whatever that the Chinese use to buy phones, it's kinda like the JB HiFi or Noel Leemings for them. They even have their own version of Cheapies (smzdm.com) that you can monitor to watch for phone deals. Once you've purchased the phone, get a shipping redirection service (kinda like Youshop) to redirect to NZ. The overall cost should be a lot cheaper than if you were to buy directly from Aliexpress or from PBTech or anywhere local.

I got my Poco F5 Pro with 512GB storage, 12GB RAM, 5000mah battery, 120hz display and fast wireless charging for about $550 NZD some time ago. It still runs really well and I don't see myself upgrading any time soon. The same phone bought on Aliexpress will probably cost $850~$900+. I see a lot of people recommending phones around this price range, but those phones have terrible specs in my opinion.

In general, I'd recommend looking at the following specs in this order:

CPU

RAM

Big battery size and good battery life

Storage

Camera

A lot of people will focus on having a good camera first. But phones that are only good at one aspect and suck at the rest usually have a low lifespan usage. Once your phone starts to feel sluggish due to having a weak CPU and low RAM (which means you can't have too many apps open in the background without Android force closing them), then what's the point of having a good camera?

For me, the Poco F5 Pro nails everything.
- spren on 01/02/2024 - 13:44
  
  +1
  
  Flagship CPUs are completely pointless in 2024 - the Tensor G2 isn't, and won't be slower in day-to-day use than the Snapdragon 8 Gen 1 in your Pocophone. Properly optimised ROMs on half-decent phones have felt responsive for literally years.
  
  What you're describing might've been an issue in 2017. It's not an issue now.
  - NovaAlpha on 01/02/2024 - 14:18
    
    Your reply makes no sense.
    
    Are you saying the Tensor G2 chip isn't a flagship CPU? You do realize that Google was using Qualcomm chips in their phones until they decided to make their own SOC? The Tensor chip IS their flagship - so saying that flagship CPUs are completely pointless in 2024 makes no sense whatsoever.
    
    And are you saying the new Snapdragon 8 Gen 3 chip is pointless as well? All the Tensor chip does is support ML and AI functionalities, which is basically what all other chipmakers will support or has already added support for as well, Snapdragon 8 Gen 3 being one.
    
    Not all manufacturers properly optimize their ROM, why else would OP post this then? In fact, a lot of phones lack yearly OS support and are dropped after just 1~2 years of release, companies violate GPL license and don't open source the kernels, etc. No shit that properly optimised ROMs will work fine on half-decent phones, the problem is that not all of them are and hence the point of recommending a good phone in this discussion.
    
    Also, ironically, the Pixel phones have had a lot of issues over the years and you would think a phone made directly by Google would have the best Android experience, as they would be able to control the software and hardware in one single package, but it's not the case. Here's a MKBHD video and he's one of the top tech reviewers on Youtube:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiTG1ride7s
    
    Don't get me wrong, I love vanilla Android and love the idea of Pixel phones. But it's not necessarily the best phone offering the best value. If you want to be a fanboy for Pixel phones, by all means, but the fact is Pixel phones aren't properly optimized. They've always had issues.
    
    You're also missing the point - the specs I listed are flagship specs but at a very affordable price, which makes it a good buy. Would you rather pay $900 for a phone with average specs, or pay $550 for a phone with the specs I listed?
    - Grandma on 01/02/2024 - 15:44
      
      +1
      
      isnt tensor just like a retooled exynos with some additional npu stuff? I have a tensor g2 phone and it's not great. It's not bad by any stretch, it's just not amazing. I don't really think I use much that leverages the ai compute, honestly. Is text to speech local now? Maybe that?
      
      Day to day it's outperformed by other phones and the speed (and heat!) difference between it and other phones is something I notice. (comparing to s23 and iphones of the world)
      
      Afaik cheaper phones with flagships chips usually get differently binned versions. There's also much to be said for the cameras, processing and first party support. Also roms and bank apps tend to not cuddle well.
      
      Specs far from tell the whole story, the fruity phone company was proof of this for a looooong time. I dont want to piss around with custom roms now that im an adult and busy,. I want to be able to buy okay accessories and resell my phone down the road.
      
      IDK it's 202x, I just want a phone that does phone things. Not something that im relying on random third parties to fix for me. (love be to the people who do this) but my phone is unfortunately too integral to my life to really risk that sort of thing.
      - NovaAlpha on 02/02/2024 - 01:41
        
        @Grandma: ROMs and bank apps do work well. It's only when you're rooted that it causes issues, but then again you can always hide root from those apps. I'm able to hide root against all NZ banking apps (I have lots of bank accounts), as well as hide root from enterprise solutions like SAP or Microsoft Teams / Company Portal and various other things. You just need to know what you're doing.
        
        And yes, Tensor chip is really just AI stuff. It allows you to do certain things in Google Photos, like using AI to remove certain objects in the background or whatever. But for the most part, it's just gimmicky stuff that's not really useful. Snapdragon Gen 2 & 3 chips are still way better imo, they are more efficient and just run way cooler.
        
        As for cheaper phones having binned CPUs, that may or may not be true depending on the brand and the model, but generally speaking the performance is more or less the same. I've done benchmark tests and you can find a lot of those online anyway. When Poco F1 came out, MKBHD and a few other top tech reviewers on Youtube did a blind test and a lot of people thought the photos taken on the Poco F1 was as good, if not better than the flagship iPhone at the time (and mind you, iPhones generally have good cameras) At the time, Poco F1 was just around $350 NZD and it had the best Snapdragon flagship back then and just generally really good flagship specs for a phone of its time. It basically excelled at everything and it became the people's best bang for buck device. When OnePlus One first came out, it was the same thing. The point is, cheap price != bad product.
        
        And we're talking Android here, not iPhones. Apple can get away with using lower specs because everything (software + hardware) is controlled by them end to end. This allows them to provide better optimization for their products. But this doesn't necessarily mean their phones are good. The battery life on iPhones generally suck compared to Android and you can almost guarantee to find posts about battery issues after a new iOS firmware got released. My GF's iPhone 14 has had GPS and battery related issues and you can't fix most them yourself because it's closed source, so you're basically at the mercy of Apple. The point is, yes specs isn't everything, but you need to compare apples to apples.
        
        There's a reason why flagship Android phones nowadays have a specific list of high-end features, even ones that are considered to be the default specs. Specs like 120hz screen, fast wireless charging, flagship CPU, etc. If specs aren't important and there's no point to them, then we'd still be using phones with specs from 10+ years ago.
        
        And nobody says you need to use custom ROMs either. I only suggested that option for people who may be technical enough and may have the time to flash it. If you know what you're doing, it's literally a 20 minute job.
    - spren on 02/02/2024 - 12:42
      
      I'm not really sure what your point here is. Tensor isn't really flagship level - they're used in the Pixel a-series phone, and they're undeniably a lot less powerful than the recent Snapdragons. That being said, they're still literally perfect for EDC use.
      
      Having used Xiaomi software on multiple phones over the years, it's an awful experience (apart from the A1, for obvious reasons). Pixel ROMs aren't even close to AOSP either, just for the record - they're better, not worse. I'd take midrange hardware (+ an excellent camera) with excellent software over excellent hardware with terrible software, but I respect that you think otherwise.
      
      Also I have no idea where you're getting the $900 figure from lol
      
      The video you linked is also a year old and specific to that phone. It's not an indictment of the entire Pixel lineup, and the a-series especially is much less prone to reliability issues.
      - NovaAlpha on 02/02/2024 - 18:37
        
        @spren: My point is, you claimed that Pixel phones are great and have "excellent software", and yet a top tech Youtuber with 18.2 million subscribers pointed out various issues and bugs with Pixel 6 Pro - which was Google's flagship phone at the time. The Pixel line has always been full of issues. If a flagship from Google has articles and videos created for it and people are still calling it "excellent software", then if that's not bias I don't know what is. Really drives the credibility of your point aye?
        
        spren on 02/02/2024 - 18:53
        
        +1
        
        @NovaAlpha:
        
        The Pixel line has always been full of issues
        
        Like, I can give you MKBHD videos complaining about Samsung software, if you want? I'm not really claiming that AOSPixel is necessarily the best flavour (that honour probably goes to either Nothing or Asus, although I despise the typefaces used by the former). I'm just (rightfully) pointing out that Xiaomi software is complete garbage.
        
        NovaAlpha on 02/02/2024 - 23:24
        
        -2
        
        @spren: I mean, all Android variants are pretty garbage, including Xiaomi. It just depends on how skilled you are at tweaking the things to the way you like it. All my customizations and tweaks are done in code, so it's always consistent regardless of what phone I buy. AOSP is OK except that ever since Android 12, the quick tile notification icons are unnecessary big and there are mods out there to make them like the old Android 10 icons, but I'd much prefer to just have that as an option natively, which is supported in MIUI. There's no clear winner here, every ROM has their issues. But as long as you know what you're doing, you shouldn't run into any software-based issues. I know how to reverse engineer Android apk files and system files, I know how to tweak kernels and modify a lot of things. Because of that, having good hardware that is bang for your buck is more important to me. But to me, there is no such thing as "excellent software" from any one of the companies. They've all got their issues.
        
        spren on 03/02/2024 - 10:31
        
        +2
        
        @NovaAlpha: Nobody should have to be building their own kernel to get a decent experience from a phone in 2024. It's just objectively true that certain Android variants are much better than others. Decompiling .apks and changing system files isn't really a flex, it just means you have a lot of time on your hands that other people don't.
        
        I've been handwringing about whether I can even be bothered rooting to enable FeliCA sometime this year because I just can't be bothered unlocking the bootloader and then reinstalling all my apps and sorting KLWP again and etc.
        
        It's just not viable for people that aren't incredibly engrossed in Android customisation.
        
        (Also, I work in UX, and I can say confidently that Xiaomi UX is absolutely horrible. AOSPixel is pretty good.)
        
        NovaAlpha on 04/02/2024 - 00:47 Comment score below threshold.
        
        spren on 04/02/2024 - 09:31
        
        +1
        
        @NovaAlpha: Bro you just sound egotistical right now, not to mention wrong. Building a kernel is not a flex and neither is "running multiple businesses". I promise you there are zero billionaires who waste time debloating their phone or running Titanium. I'm not going to further converse with someone who believes there's no objectivity in UX, and that "UX is secondary to performance" - it honestly sounds like you don't even know what UX is. Have a good one.
        
        NovaAlpha on 04/02/2024 - 13:20
        
        -1
        
        @spren: Obviously you haven't heard the term 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder'. A Porsche isn't the best looking car or the most aggressive looking supercar out there, compared to the likes of a lambo or something else. But a lot of car enthusiasts would agree that it's the best driver's car and it sets the benchmark. UX is literally a subjective thing. Some people prefer the UX on an iPhone, while some prefer UX on an Android. Can you say which one is definitely better? No. Likewise, there's different Linux mint flavours and they all have different UX. Can you say which one is definitely the best? No. Show me a paper on how this is actually objectively measured otherwise.
        
        UX doesn't matter when a flagship phone is full of bugs and costs $800. It's just embarrassing when Android developed by Google can't even run properly on a phone developed by Google. The majority of the world don't use Pixel phones and that's saying something. Otherwise it would have taken over the market share by now.
        
        For the record, I've never said any particular phone brand is good. I've openly stated that all Android variants are just the same. That's being non-bias as opposed to you constantly shouting Pixel pixel pixel.
        
        Titanium Backup sucks and development has been dropped years ago. Swift Backup is the better option.
        
        I imagine that all these things I've mentioned sound like a waste of time and are difficult for you. A grandma might take 30 minutes to figure out how to turn on her PC or her phone and people like you are going, yeah it's a waste of time for people to learn this. You and I are just on a different skill level I guess. It's not a flex at all. Just saying that this is extremely easy stuff and if you find them to be difficult or takes a lot of time, then you're doing something wrong.
        
        But let's just agree to disagree. We obviously share completely different opinion. You can keep being Pixel fanboy and recommend a $800 phone with the only good points about it being "good software" and good camera (which I agree with), while the rest is pretty average. I'd rather recommend a phone with flagship level hardware specs all around at $550.
        
        spren on 04/02/2024 - 15:16
        
        +2
        
        @NovaAlpha:
        
        beauty is in the eye of the beholder
        
        UX and 'beauty' are almost completely orthogonal.
        
        UX is literally a subjective thing.
        
        No.
        
        Show me a paper on how this is actually objectively measured otherwise
        
        UX research is well documented in industry and academia. I'm sure you know how to use Google Scholar. If you're lucky, you'll find one of my papers.
        
        UX doesn't matter when a flagship phone is full of bugs and costs $800.
        
        I genuinely think you don't understand the difference between UX and UI. Good UX eschews 'bugs'.
        
        The majority of the world don't use Pixel phones and that's saying something. Otherwise it would have taken over the market share by now.
        
        This is incredibly naive.
        
        I've openly stated that all Android variants are just the same.
        
        This is ridiculously untrue, and not just from a UX perspective.
        
        I imagine that all these things I've mentioned sound like a waste of time and are difficult for you.
        
        I used to officially maintain Paranoid Android on the Nexus 5 and LG V30. I helped fix wireless ADB in AOSP. Go on?
        
        You and I are just on a different skill level I guess.
        
        Yes, we are. Anyone flexing that they can 'root a device in an hour' or 'automatically back up their PC' is a skid at best.
        
        You can keep being Pixel fanboy
        
        I don't use either of mine daily.
        
        recommend a $800 phone
        
        Quote, please?
        
        NovaAlpha on 04/02/2024 - 15:36
        
        -1
        
        @spren:
        
        I used to officially maintain Paranoid Android on the Nexus 5 and LG V30. I helped fix wireless ADB in AOSP. Go on?
        
        I'm sure you did. Yet you couldn't be bothered to do simple tasks such as the quote below, even though it takes so little time and effort:
        
        I've been handwringing about whether I can even be bothered rooting to enable FeliCA sometime this year because I just can't be bothered unlocking the bootloader and then reinstalling all my apps and sorting KLWP again and etc.
        
        If it was so trivial for you, why comment about it? Or were you just wasting everyone's time by making a useless point that doesn't benefit the conversation? My point is that if people can't fix simple issues or do simple things such as rooting/restoring backups etc, then you need to get good. It's got nothing to do with flexing whatsoever. But if you found that to be a flex, maybe you're just insecure about your own skill level. You've been the one shouting the word flex flex flex even though all of this is just normal to me.
        
        recommend a $800 phone
        
        You've been recommending Pixel left right and center. Everybody can see that from your comments. We all know how much these costs. If people want the latest Pixel phone, it'll cost $1000+. Double the price of my $550 recommendation.
        
        https://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=10182406
        
        Yes, very good value for money indeed. Definitely worth double the price for having doubled the "excellent software".
        
        spren on 04/02/2024 - 16:48
        
        +1
        
        @NovaAlpha:
        
        your own skill level
        
        bro stop. No one says things like this in real life. Please get a grip. Rooting a phone does not require 'skill'. It's the equivalent of putting LEGO together for 7 year olds with access to the internet. None of this is in any way 'skillful'. It's just a waste of time.
        
        You've been recommending Pixel left right and center. Everybody can see that from your comments. We all know how much these costs.
        
        By 'we' are you excluding yourself? I don't get why you're trying to argue. Read my comments again if you're struggling.
        
        NovaAlpha on 06/02/2024 - 13:30
        
        @spren: Learn to read mate. I never said rooting requires skill.
        
        This whole time, I've been saying that these things are complete child's play. Nobody is flexing on anything. The thing that you keep getting wrong is the "waste of time" part. How is it a waste of time when these things are so quick and easy to do? Does it take you a year to root your device or whatever?
        
        Knowing how to root and restore your phone is not a skill, it's just something essential that everyone should know, like how to cook or how to drive. People saying that these things are a waste of time just have no idea what they're talking about. It's the same thing as saying learning how to drive is a waste of time.
        
        Like I said, if you know your shit, then any software based related issues, including your constant blabbering of software optimization and UX etc, would be fixed easily. Nobody should complain about how much of a waste of time it is to unlock bootloader, root their device, restore their apps and settings etc, because these don't require skill and don't take a lot of time at all. If anything, 1~2 hours max. These are things you brought up (below), not me.
        
        I've been handwringing about whether I can even be bothered rooting to enable FeliCA sometime this year because I just can't be bothered unlocking the bootloader and then reinstalling all my apps and sorting KLWP again and etc.
        
        It's just not viable for people that aren't incredibly engrossed in Android customisation.
        
        Grandma on 06/02/2024 - 13:15
        
        +1
        
        @spren: 'Yes, we are. Anyone flexing that they can 'root a device in an hour' or 'automatically back up their PC' is a skid at best.'
        
        I too, can follow youtube tutorials and copy/paste things into adb!
        
        Grandma on 06/02/2024 - 13:13
        
        @NovaAlpha: Just a quick on 'UX is subjective'
        
        There are parts of it which are subjective. Good UX design is surprisingly rigid. Microsoft / apple / google / ibm / facebook and many others have published design guidelines and they're all very similar for a reason.
        
        Maybe the new headsets might be more malleable? But they're still drawing on decades of interface design and research and we're using the same principles and similar affordances.
        
        (this is my rabbit hole topic)
        
        NovaAlpha on 06/02/2024 - 13:39
        
        @Grandma: I think it's a bit of a grey area. They copy each other but not necessarily because the designs are good, but because it has become the default to just copy each other's work.
        
        I remember when dark mode was introduced a couple of years ago and the entire industry started to add dark mode into everything. Now, we're seeing the same thing with AI. Everyone is jumping on the hype train, trying to capitalize on the trend and make a profit.
        
        Google's material design has a lot of flaws in my opinion. Some of the new UI designs are absolute garbage. The buttons and everything look bigger than they need to.
        
        I mean, look how stupid the Android quick tile notification is now:
        
        https://9to5google.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2021/05/An…
        
        It takes up so much space and sure there are mods and tweaks out there, but the default shouldn't be like this. The old notification layout looks much better and gives you way more tiles for each row and column:
        
        https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F…
        
        On some phones even running Android 13/14 these days, you can get the old style notification back as the default, without mods or anything else. But on AOSP like the Pixel phone, you're stuck with the new design.
        
        Quick tile notification isn't just an UI design, it also affects UX and they're basically interchangeable for the most part.
        
        Another example is the touch screen in cars nowadays. A lot of cars have done away with actual buttons and knobs and use touchscreens for everything. You want to adjust the window or the climate? Go into the settings and click multiple times just to get to what you want. How stupid is that? That's technically UX as well. A lot of car manufacturers have now joined the trend of moving almost everything into a touch setting. Is that necessarily a good thing, even if they published design guidelines and papers for these changes?
        
        And for the record, I never said rooting a phone etc require skill. On the contrary, those are trivial things that are so quick and easy to do that everyone should know how to do it. Which is why it baffles me that people would complain about how much time it takes, etc etc. It's just not true. If it really takes a person that long to do these things, or to fix simple software issues in ROMs or whatever, then they're doing something wrong.
        
        Grandma on 06/02/2024 - 16:02
        
        @NovaAlpha: The quick tiles are about as dense as the ones on an iphone. By the time you add the player it's probably about the same.
        
        It's about striking an easy affordance with the most people. Most importantly, probably, was having enough space for a text descriptor. Icons in quick settings aren't always obvious. The iphone control centre just uses iconography by default but only has a few things. If you go out of your way to enable all of the extra buttons it can be rather confusing. ( I mention apple because they have been the gold standard of UI affordance, sans 3d touch, and approachability since 2007 I guess ). I've only done one undergrad paper on this, it was hella interesting but sounds like others in this thread know more than me!
        
        Similarly, the 6 or so default icons are about all I ever do on my phone. Torch, wifi, bluetooth and dark mode really.
        
        The old quick settings had the issue of small icons that didn't convey they were on or off in a super-bold way and didn't convey that you could pull down for more particularly well. They were (although I think one UI fixed that over in samsung town) not particularly ergonomic to reach either. Wifi, for example, by default just showed 'on' or 'off'. No deeper info about connectivity to what.
        
        It should strike a balance between nana - friendly and power user friendly, I think it does tbh. Screen record, battery saver etc are things I use so infrequently that a secondary swipe is fine if it reduces the overall time to acquire and tap crap on the first page.
        
        Idk, I actually quite like material you on stock, maybe it's the wiggly now playing bar. I'd probably move the brightness bar if possible.
        
        Good interaction design has to be as close to not there as possible for the (conscious) user. There's the iphone anecdote about slide to unlock where one of the engineer's toddlers was able to figure it out.
        
        If I were to bother putting another rom onto my phone it would probably overall take me more than two hours by the time I get everything back to how it is right now. I have a life and things going on. I just can't be bothered really. My pixel 7 works pretty well. Waay back when I had an LG G3 I bothered with custom roms etc. (mostly because the default dpi settings were crazy large and the ui broke when you changed them). But now phones are so similar that the only reason to bother is getting the ccp out of the imported phones. (Im not even half joking)
        
        My car has capacitive buttons but not a touch screen and that's bad enough.
        
        NovaAlpha on 06/02/2024 - 17:07
        
        @Grandma: I never really liked the iPhone interface, which is probably why I hate some parts of the material design.
        
        I mean, there is just so much wasted space in the quick tiles. It's fine to display text on the icons, but look at how much wasted space there is, it's as if someone has gone and enabled old-people mode because they assume we have poor eyesight and are so dumb with phones that we need everything to be dumbed down.
        
        https://9to5google.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2021/05/An…
        
        You're wasting so much space just to show 8 big ass tiles and you're blocking the rest of the available space for notifications, widgets, etc. It's just poor design.
        
        Here's an actual screenshot of what is currently configured on my notification shade:
        https://imgur.com/a/FrjpOsJ
        
        I can configure multiple rows and columns if I wanted to, but I'm leaving 5x3 as the default. I'm already getting way more quick tiles (15) compared to the material design (8). I can see the text on all the tiles and they have rolling text. The Wi-Fi one for example will show you the full SSID as the text will roll from right to left. But it's not like you need to look at the text to know what they are. Over time, you know exactly where your icons are and what they do, so the text on them isn't 100% necessary.
        
        You'll notice that there's a little arrow on the WiFi, mobile data and bluetooth icons. I can click on them to quickly switch to a different SSID, switch mobile SIM to a different SIM, or switch bluetooth device. Long tapping on the icons would take me deeper into the settings as well, if required.
        
        A lot of my icons actually are paired with MacroDroid (similar to Tasker) for complex automations. Pressing one button could trigger a bunch of things in the background, from enabling/disabling system settings, to sending a text or doing a webhook call to turning on certain things in my house, etc I guess I use a lot of these icons, among other things on my phone, so my usage is probably quite different than most people. Also, I still get my brightness bar control and I get to see my widgets and notifications, all in the same notification shade.
        
        I still think UI and UX are basically subjective in general. Android's design philosophy is quite different to iOS. I'm sure they both have design papers and studies done on them, but neither is the clear winner, which is why you're either an iOS user or Android user. Same goes with PC. Some people prefer Windows, some prefer MacOS and some prefer Linux. There's no objective measure on which one is the absolute best or correct one.
        
        Most Android variants are good enough for everyday use for anyone. The UX doesn't vary that much. I have yet to use an Android variant that has such distinct UX that I go, damn this is really hard to use and I can't figure this out. If we're talking cars, then having a very distinctive UX would be like sitting in a Rolls Royce compared to a crappy Toyota. It's night and day. But comparing Pixel's UX to the likes or One UI, MIUI etc? It's all more or less the same, it's not more premium in anyway, and it's not that much better or faster to use. But again, this is all just subjective experience, which is why I think at the end of the day, the real measure is based on specs and that's what companies are mostly focused on anyway. You don't see companies push out new phones on a yearly basis because of a new firmware. They always push the latest specs to sell to consumers. New camera, new CPU, etc.
        
        Grandma on 07/02/2024 - 12:12
        
        +1
        
        @NovaAlpha: Regarding the (MIUI?) thing you've got going on
        
        There's a couple of dated design ideas in there that are just bad.
        
        Here's some interesting principles, I can't remember everything but https://andra-cimpan.medium.com/10-laws-of-ux-87ee1c48368c
        
        At a boring, undergrad level, i'd call your screenshot bad design for the following reasons:
        
        too many toggles. It takes too long to find them most common tasks. It's paginated, why aren't the less common things on the latter pages so that the most frequently used are first and foremost?
        
        maruqee text is awful and slow unless you already know the text and just need reassurance. Anything requiring marquee text that isn't saying something really simple or predictable is bad in the first place.
        
        The corner targets are too small. I, for example, rarely turn my wifi off but am more interested in the wifi connections. Pressing the circle should open the platter and there is not enough contrast to convey this with the triangle indicator.
        
        The widgets make this look like the phones that oldies used to bring into noel leeming for us to 'fix' because they've downloaded every which cleaner in the world. (just a side note)
        
        I get a bunch of your icons are for tasker etc, but (and this is still an annoying case in android 14 stock) quick tiles launching apps is bad design. It should be a toggle thats immediately changed or a platter. Iphones do this really well. If there are other circle icons in the system, then that's inconsistent and bad design.
        
        Most people would leave NFC on all of the time, in fact I dont think you can even disable it on iphones. the NFC icon should therefore be opt in in the status bar.
        
        Also, on a slight tangent, gestures are objectively better than buttons because of how our thumbs move. Ill fight people on that.
        
        NovaAlpha on 07/02/2024 - 22:09
        
        @Grandma: Most if not all of those things can be tweaked and configured on Android. That's the whole point of Android.
        
        I don't like having NFC, bluetooth, location etc on all the time. I'm very religious when it comes to software optimizations and I much prefer to control things like deep sleep and doze configurations (via shell scripts) and NFC/bluetooth toggle on/off based on conditions. I can always hide the NFC icon from the status bar easily if I wanted to, but I don't because I prefer seeing it.
        
        If you have a decently sized phone with custom resolution (which you can set in developer settings), then the text and icons would look just fine. At least, they look fine to me. I don't have a problem with my eyesight or anything. I can see the text and the corner targets perfectly and never fail to click on them.
        
        I guess this is what I mean - all of these things are just subjective. I much prefer this style on my phone and I'm very happy with this setup. I use a lot of quick tile icons on the front page and I can always shrink down the columns or rows if I wanted to. The point is, the Android 12 quick tile notification shade just takes up way too much space. Like I said, you don't even need to know where things are once you're used to tapping the same spot multiple times. So it's not a problem for me to find them.
        
        It's just personal preference at the end.
        
        Gestures are slow because you gotta do so much movement with your fingers. I can make the same button do multiple things depending on the condition and you can't really tune that easily using gestures. Maybe I'm just old school.
  - Grandma on 01/02/2024 - 15:45
    
    In apple land im convinced that if you hid the new hole punch and only showed people the front of the screens, iphones from 12 to 15 would be borderline impossible to tell apart
- Telemachus on 06/02/2024 - 13:29
  
  How is the battery life on your Poco f5? How long have you had it for?
  Cheers.
  - NovaAlpha on 06/02/2024 - 13:45
    
    Mine isn't stock. I've modified mine quite heavily, using custom kernels etc.
    
    But on stock, the 5000mah battery should last a good 15 hours of screen on time. If we're talking about idle, then a good couple of days no problem. Stock ROM and Xiaomi.EU custom ROM are pretty stable even for someone like me. Maxed out 120hz and highest resolution and bluetooth + NFC on the whole time, etc etc, no issues with battery. But some people may not like MIUI because of how aggressive it is at killing background apps. It's very easy to tweak though.
    - Telemachus on 06/02/2024 - 17:39
      
      Thanks. I'm looking to replace my 10t pro which has started to need a charge in the middle of the day. Not too fussed about the camera, just need a decent processor and ram for my 360 videos. Is the Snapdragon 8+ gen 1 reasonable enough?
      - NovaAlpha on 06/02/2024 - 18:45
        
        +1
        
        @Telemachus: Should be more than enough. It was the flagship chip of 2022 after all. I don't really game on my phone, but I've never encountered any issues where I go, damn my phone is slow AF. Everything runs butter smooth on my phone.
        
        Having said that, you could have a look at other models that have the Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 or even Gen 3 chips, although they might be more expensive.
        
        If you're into custom ROMs, then the Poco F5 Pro has a decent amount of development in both XDA and Xiaomi.EU. But otherwise, stock ROM itself is pretty stable.
        
        Telemachus on 07/02/2024 - 14:41
        
        @NovaAlpha: Do you have any problems with banking apps working with the custom ROM?
        
        NovaAlpha on 07/02/2024 - 15:18
        
        +1
        
        @Telemachus: No. I use all the big banks and I have no issues. If you root, then you'll run into issues but I'm rooted and can hide root from all the banking apps, including Teams, Company Portal, SAP, etc.
Julio Gomez on 01/02/2024 - 13:34

-2

https://versus.com/en/phone?page=2

No need to go elsewhere.
Just compare them & choose one in your budget. 👍🏻

(As for me, I would never touch any phone &/ or laptop by Sony. Just stay away from them. Their batteries are the purest rubbish. Everywhere installed. And software updates / upgrades — nightmare. 🤦🏻‍♂️
Trust me…)

Cheers! 👋🏻
fatboyj on 04/02/2024 - 16:31

+5

WOW. I'd pay good money to watch NovaAlpha and Spren sitting in the same room to have at it.
- kfr23 on 04/02/2024 - 16:35
  
  Same! It's quite entertaining to watch.
  - fatboyj on 04/02/2024 - 16:39
    
    +3
    
    I mean you can just come by here to read the stuff but you got to see it in person which one has the bigger throbbing vein, and bet when it pops.
    - spren on 04/02/2024 - 16:49
      
      +1
      
      yeah I can't lie, it's not the first time someone's said something like this about me :(
      
      (also pls don't capitalise my username, you're ruining the aesthetic)
      - Tmurder91 on 04/02/2024 - 17:33
        
        +1
        
        @spren: I wonder if NovaAlpha does all his own plumbing, electrical work, car maintenance etc.
        probably also did the architectural work on his house too. And all the legal documents for building it. He’s probably the accountant for all of his businesses.
        All that while raising a family of 3 kids under 5.
        
        My point is that any of those things on their own are easy for a person who specialises in that one thing, and has time and passion to dedicate to it.
        
        Not everyone does. Some people love tinkering with technology, others with home design or their family or a hobby like a car.
        Doesn’t mean anyone else has to enjoy it like you, and doesn’t mean they can’t be a skilled and intelligent person if they don’t like technology.
        
        Free time is a myth if you have more than one passion, especially if you have a family.
        
        spren on 04/02/2024 - 17:35
        
        @Tmurder91: Far be it from me to assume. He excels at life, after all.
- tacobaron on 04/02/2024 - 16:44
  
  +1
  
  They're so knowledgeable but I'm just out here trying to get a fine good value phone haha.
  - mikenz on 04/02/2024 - 20:10
    
    +1
    
    people who care this much about phones better be in the phone industry, otherwise it's a whole new level of autism
doubledippps on 05/02/2024 - 13:29

Will anyone recommanded a Samsung Galaxy S23 FE or should i avoid it? Cheers
- coach on 06/02/2024 - 19:52
  
  It's perfectly fine, and has great software support rivalling that of Apple.
fatboyj on 25/02/2024 - 00:09

Pretty sure my next upgrade will include esim, anything in this price range worth a look?
- ace310 on 25/02/2024 - 09:05
  
  Iphone 11 pro. Not sure on android as I don't have market knowledge.
  - kfr23 on 25/02/2024 - 13:40
    
    -2
    
    Do not get one unless you want poor battery life and not many years of updates left. iPhone 11 or the Pro Max? Maybe.

Best Value Smart Phones in The $500 - $700 Range?

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